Who Supports the General Counsel Navigating Change, Ambition and Uncertainty

Introduction

[00:00:03] Sacha Kirk: Hello, and welcome to In-House Matters by Lawcadia, a series of short, sharp conversations with legal leaders who are improving how in-house teams work. I’m Sacha Kirk, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer at Lawcadia.

[00:00:15] Today we’re talking about something that is not always discussed openly. Who supports the General Counsel when they are the person everyone else expects to have the answers? Senior legal roles can bring significant responsibility, particularly during periods of organisational change. General Counsels may be managing restructures, supporting executives, leading teams through uncertainty, navigating internal politics, and making difficult decisions about their own careers, and often at the same time.

[00:00:43] Yet the more senior you become, the fewer people there may be that you can speak to candidly. Today we’re going to explore some of those pressures and get an understanding about what Claire sees through her work with senior lawyers and executives, and whether we need to think differently about coaching and professional support for senior legal leaders.

Meet Claire Bibby

[00:01:01] Sacha Kirk: Today I’m joined by Claire Bibby, senior lawyer, executive coach, Non-Executive Director, and Co-Founder of Coaching Advocates. Claire has more than 30 years of experience as a General Counsel, Executive, and various leadership roles, and has built what I think is a particularly interesting portfolio career.

[00:01:19] Alongside operating her own commercial law practice, Claire sits on boards, works as an executive coach and mentor, supports lawyers and executives through significant career and leadership decisions, and has also founded and supported a number of businesses and not-for-profit ventures. This gives her a unique perspective on both the pressures experienced by senior lawyers and the different directions a legal career can take.

[00:01:42] Claire, welcome. It’s great to have you here.

[00:01:45] Claire Bibby: Thank you, Sacha. Lovely to be here.

Claire’s Career Journey

[00:01:46] Sacha Kirk: Claire, you’ve had a varied career across senior in-house roles, private practice, board positions and coaching. Can you tell us a little about your own career journey and how you came to focus on coaching alongside balancing your Non-Exec Director roles and your own law practice?

[00:02:02] Claire Bibby: I looked at my LinkedIn profile before we chatted today, and I thought, “Oh, my God, I’ve done a lot, haven’t I?” And- You’ve done a lot … when you said in introduction that I’ve been around for 30 years, I think, “Oh, sugar, I’m getting a bit old here.” A lot of people might remember me as a brunette.

[00:02:14] Clearly, I’m not that anymore. I’ve been very fortunate, Sacha. I had a fantastic mentor very early on in my career when I was working in Western Australia for a company that was led by the Bunnings family, who are very well known in Western Australia. I moved to Sydney in the early 2000s, and I moved into the listed funds management space.

[00:02:39] Whilst I was doing that, my very first years, I was approached by Multiplex, and I spent quite a number of years, over a decade, with them, working up to a GC position after Brookfield, the Canadian company, took took Multiplex over. Just short of a decade or so ago, I left being a full-time general counsel, and I got more entrenched in both non-executive directorship world. I started investing my own money. I started to work in the C-suite, and I started my own law firm, as you touched on. And then in the middle of COVID, I thought it would be an awesome idea to start a brand-new business with somebody who I didn’t know very well at the time, but who I know very well now, and that’s Lara Wentworth.

[00:03:18] We co-founded Coaching Advocates together. I currently practise law about 50% of the week, and my coaching and non-executive directorship work takes up the other 50% of my week. You asked me why I was drawn to coaching, if I remember the question correctly. I not only had a really fantastic mentor at the beginning of my career, but I was also really fortunate enough to have two other mentors / sponsors during my career, and just curiously they were all men.

[00:03:44] What I realised is that I was probably quite unique in having found three fantastic men leaders who took me under their wing along the way. But what I also saw was what I personally thought were a bunch of, without being disrespectful, completely clueless other leaders. Particularly when it comes to managing lawyers, because we are not the easiest people to manage given the traditional personality type that is attracted to law.

[00:04:10] So when Lara and I decided to open a business in the middle of COVID, we did so because we saw a niche, and that was lawyers being coached, and we saw the niche of lawyers coaching other lawyers because, again, the personality type of the industry. Lawyers can be not only hard to sell to, as you would know, they can be challenging to work with, and you need to be able to speak their language.

[00:04:34] You need to be able to understand that world, and to a certain extent, having lived experience and still doing it myself, whereas Lara is a full-time coach, I do it part-time. We were able to find a niche, burst it open, and start a business that is now international, has offices in a couple of different places around the world.

[00:04:52] So that’s how I’ve ended up where I am now.

Designing a Portfolio Career

[00:04:55] Sacha Kirk: Congratulations. It sounds like there’s been a lot of success along the way for you with your career. I’m curious, this portfolio career that we’ve talked about just briefly, was it something that you deliberately designed or did it evolve as you started asking different questions about yourself and what you wanted for your career?

[00:05:12] And who was supporting you when you were navigating those career changes?

[00:05:16] Claire Bibby: Was it something that I deliberately designed? Absolutely not. I used to think that having a General Counsel gig in a big company was, the ant’s pants, that it was completely secure, it was a stable pathway. I do a lot of work with a number of lawyers who are either in private practice or in-house who say, I wouldn’t want to do something different ’cause, I’ve got this great secure job” And I just say, “Oh my God there’s nothing secure about your job whatsoever.”

[00:05:41] There was a book I read many years ago by Richard Branson, Losing My Virginity I think it was called. And he talked in that book about having seven different forms of income. And when my role was made redundant at Brookfield, I suddenly thought, “What the hell am I going to do? I’m a great GC in this space, but what am I going to do now?”

[00:06:00] And then I remember reading this book and thinking, “Okay, let’s go out and find seven forms of income.” And a friend of mine, Holly Ransom, said to me, “That doesn’t mean get seven full-time jobs, Claire.” I accept that it didn’t mean get seven full-time jobs, but it feels at times that maybe I did go and get seven full-time jobs.

[00:06:17] But really, that stage in my career when I was in my late 40s was, looking back at it now, it was a blessing in disguise because I got to think really deeply about my values and what was important. And my husband, whisked me off, I’d like to say, but he didn’t really. My husband decided that the best thing for us to do at that point in time was to go to Cambodia.

[00:06:37] And so we did, and we spent quite a bit of time in Cambodia, and we built a number of houses. We did some work on a school, and we really got back to what was important to us. And whilst building really great big buildings and working on billion-dollar deals seemed really important at the time, when you’ve spent a serious amount of time in Cambodia dealing with people who are earning $10 a year, you start to see life very differently.

[00:07:02] So when we came back from that period of time, I was fortunate to go and fill some bucket list items. So I did some study at Cambridge, which I had always wanted to do. I invested some money. I made some money. I lost some money, but c’est la vie, that’s what happens. And also during that time, I met a book coach who was recommended to me by my voice coach.

[00:07:22] So for some reason, coaches have always been in my life. And she suggested that I go and do some formal executive coaching training because I wanted to write a book about managing lawyers and the difficulty of practising law in the environment, and this was pre-COVID, and that was another one of my bucket list items.

[00:07:38] And by stepping into such different worlds, all of a sudden I was meeting all these really different people, and none of them were lawyers, and it was awesome. No disrespect to all the lawyers in the room, but it was really awesome because my world was really broadening, and all these doors were opening for me.

[00:07:54] And the non-executive director world was really exciting because that took me completely out of law. I didn’t want to completely leave the law, hence why I still practise law. But I now sit on the board of a private university. I sit on the board of a Harvey Norman subsidiary. I sit on the board of a construction company ’cause you can’t get the construction lawyer, can’t knock that out of me.

[00:08:14] And I also sit on the board of a listed technology company, which sits really nicely with some of my private interests as well. If I think back to who I was 10 years ago when I thought I was in a really secure full-time GC role, if I think back to those days now, I shake my head a little bit and think, “Wow, I could never go back to doing that,” because my life has broadened so much now.

[00:08:35] And that only came with time. And, when something opens in your life and you see an opportunity, you’ve just got to run with it and see what happens. I had some successes, I had some failures, but you grow from that, and I’m really happy where I am now.

Drawing on Experiences & Insights

[00:08:47] Sacha Kirk: That’s fascinating.

[00:08:48] I think for me personally it also really strongly resonates because I’ve had opportunities in my life where the doors have closed and I’ve been made redundant, my husband’s been made redundant and different life events have happened. But they’ve all been catalysts that ended up leading to us creating Lawcadia. Yep. And you look back with all the wisdom that I have now, and I can see how all of these things came together and led to each other, and actually how much I’ve learned and the richness in my life that’s come from that. And I can see those similar threads coming through your story, where something’s happened that at the time might have been quite distressing and upsetting, and your world has changed.

[00:09:25] But then because of that, there’s all these other rich opportunities and your world has opened up and so much has changed, but it’s been really positive. And the way that you’ve adapted with those changes has been really positive. I guess there’s a lot of wisdom that then you’re naturally sharing when you are in that coaching position.

[00:09:40] Claire Bibby: Yeah, absolutely. Because you can have a really closed view if your world is quite closed, particularly if you’ve been with an organisation for a long time or a certain law firm for a long time, or a certain corporate, or a certain practice of law. Because there are so many different ways that you can practise law, and you don’t actually have to be in private practice.

[00:10:00] I am one of those few in-house lawyers who actually went back to private practice. And not only did I go back to private practice, I started my own law firm. And when people say to me, “I’m so scared, I can’t open a law firm,” I say, “Yes, you can. If I did it, you can do it.” You just need to know how to do it, and people will help you.

[00:10:19] People can be incredibly generous is something that I’ve found. So absolutely. Yeah. And to- So generous … and just to build on what you said earlier, when you have different life experiences, you become more empathetic, you become more curious, use your right brain a lot more. And I think you actually become a better person because you can help people from a much broader sphere of influence, for want of a better way of describing that.

[00:10:43] And as I said earlier, meeting lots more non-lawyers was a really great experience for me. And for those people who are interested in getting into the non-executive directorship world, and I know there are a lot of people who like to do that, it’s not your lawyer mates, it’s not the law firms that are going to open those doors for you when it comes to networking and connection.

[00:11:02] It’s going to be the C-suites. It’s going to be the senior directors. It’s going to be the people that have seen you do what you do, but not with a lens as your manager or your coworker in a law firm or in a private practice. It’s somebody that’s seen you from a different perspective. And I’ve had the most unusual recommendations of me made by people who, perhaps I didn’t touch their life a great deal when they were in the C-suite.

[00:11:29] But they’ve said to other people, she really thinks about things a little bit differently. She’s got the legal background, but, she’s also got the yada, yada, yada.” And those connections have just been marvelous.

Common Coaching Themes for Senior Lawyers

[00:11:37] Sacha Kirk: That’s a really interesting point to raise, Claire, and it does get me onto my next question.

[00:11:43] So when you’re spending the time as a coach and you’re working with the senior lawyers and executives, what are typically the issues that they’re bringing to you?

[00:11:50] Claire Bibby: Lara and I talk about leadership because we’re not only coaches we say we help people with their leadership journey.

[00:11:56] We talk about leadership from three perspectives: leadership of self, leadership of people, and leadership of the organisation. When it comes to leadership of self, it’s very common, even though law is made up of a lot of people with, we refer to them as having A-type personalities, but there’s so many people who’ve got such big confidence issues, and have got imposter syndrome, and they’re thinking, “What the hell am I doing in this room?

[00:12:21] How did I even get into this room?” There is a really common thread amongst lawyers, often because we are perfectionists, that we wonder, are we actually really good enough to be doing this sort of work? And sometimes I have to knock that out of people and get them to see the reality of what is going on around them.

[00:12:40] I’m working with the loveliest lawyer at the moment who has just started a firm, and she’s got such a low opinion of herself. I’ve actually seen her legal work, and she’s brilliant. And I’m trying to convince her, you know so much more than you think you know. But that’s from a leadership of self perspective.

[00:12:59] From leadership of other people, it’s quite often managing difficult conversations. It’s getting out of the way of being a manager and actually becoming a leader of people because they are two very, very different things. And then when it comes to leadership of organisations, we do work with a lot of partners, from partners who are retiring all the way down to junior partners or special counsel and senior associates who are stepping into the partnership seat, or senior lawyers who are stepping into the General Counsel seat.

[00:13:26] And, politics. There’s so much politics in every single industry. So learning about personality types, how to read people, how to get the most out of people, because you cannot manage people exactly the same way. You need a different tool in your toolbox to manage this person compared to that person compared to that person.

[00:13:45] Business development is something that a lot of lawyers hate, but it’s something that’s so very important because it brings the work in the door. There’s partnership issues. people internally may be coming after your job. People externally may be coming after your job. I even had an instance when I was at Brookfield, when a partner, and I won’t say which firm, a partner of a law firm emailed one of my commercial instructors and basically said, ” I want to be the General Counsel of Brookfield, the property division.

[00:14:13] It’s Claire Bibby’s role. How do I get that gig?” And this person pushed back and said, I think Claire’s doing all right there, mate.” But, it was a bit inappropriate to do an approach like that, and I’ve never sent that person any work or their firm any work. But there is a lot of competition out there between lawyers to get the really good gigs, because the really good gigs at the really senior level are like hen’s teeth.

[00:14:34] And people when they’re in that role, not only have concerns about how they’re managing, so there are internal pressures, but they’ve also got the external pressures that are coming down, that they know there’s a lot of other people who want that gig. So whilst every single person is coached on something very different and very personal and very private to them generally, there is a lot of common themes because, believe it or not, lawyers at the end of the day are just people, and we have the same foibles, we have the same concerns, we have the same insecurities, and very common, similar self-sabotaging behaviour between our industry as a whole.

[00:15:06] is it right in saying that the more senior you get, the harder it is to find people that you can speak candidly with? Absolutely. One of the most unpleasant things that I ever had to do as a General Counsel, and I had to do it a number of times, is I had to make people redundant, and I also had to terminate people for performance. And they’re really hard things to do because you are impacting upon someone’s life, someone’s self-worth, someone’s ego to a certain degree, and you cannot share that,

[00:15:38] you shouldn’t be sharing it with your 2IC, the people in your team. You might be speaking to peers within the organisation in an in-house setting, but they all come with their own perspectives, their own attitudes, their own experiences. And that’s when having a coach, somebody who has no agenda whatsoever, and if they’re properly coaching you and they’ve been trained to International Coaching Federation standards or another senior organisational standards, they know that our role is not to give advice.

[00:16:05] It is not to bring our world to their world. We can ask permission to share our own experience with a client, but we should never be telling the client what to do. The client should actually be the person in the coaching relationship that does the most talking, because sometimes they just need to get it off their chest, and often just sharing with another person is halving the problem for them.

[00:16:26] The legal industry is very small. We might think that we’re very big, particularly over here in the eastern states, but I come from Western Australia, where it is even smaller. And people gossip, and that’s quite natural. But you won’t get that with a coach. Because of the ethical standards that we sign up to we are there exclusively for the person who is our client, and our gig is essentially to make the invisible visible for them.

[00:16:50] So to help them get from A to B, whatever A is in their world and whatever B is in their world, without bringing our own biases, without bringing our own perspectives, but bringing to the table the coaching training that we’ve had. That doesn’t mean we don’t bring our personal experience, because frankly, lawyers wouldn’t hire me if I didn’t have a legal background.

[00:17:09] But I don’t come into that room as, an ex-whatever or a current whatever. I come in as a coach who’s there 100% for the person on the other side, and you can’t generally get that from your peers. You may think you can get that from your family, but your family and your friends hopefully love you, and they have their own agenda for you to make you happy.

[00:17:31] My job as a coach is partly to make you happy, but that is not my driver. My driver is to reach more deeper than that and help you get to the place that resonates with your values, that will make you content from a bigger picture, longer term perspective.

The Value of a Coach, Mentor and Sponsor

[00:17:49] Sacha Kirk: Thinking specifically about General Counsel who might be struggling with uncertainty or one of those difficult situations that you’ve mentioned, who can they typically turn to?

[00:17:57] So we’ve talked about the role of a coach. What about the role of a mentor or a sponsor that you mentioned you’ve had some experience with?

[00:18:04] Claire Bibby: Everybody deserves a good mentor, and everybody deserves a great sponsor. But you don’t go out and tap on somebody’s shoulder and say, “Hey, will you be my mentor or my sponsor?”

[00:18:11] ‘Because that’s just not the way it happens. These are relationships that happen organically. The three gentlemen who were my sponsors over time, one of them is still in my life and has been for the last 30 years as my Gandalf that I go to from now and then, for the fans of Lord of the Rings.

[00:18:27] The sponsor is somebody who, is the person who’s talking about you behind closed doors and is advocating for you, and I’ve had a couple of those along my career as well. They are fantastic to get in your life but a mentor will tell you how to do it from their own perspective and give you counsel.

[00:18:44] And unless they’ve walked a mile in your shoes and they know the people and they may have just the very, very best of intentions, but it’s not the same as coaching because coaching doesn’t come with those recommendations of what to do. Don’t get me wrong, we do weave it in, but we weave it in incredibly gently because that is not the role of the coach. Sponsor, yes, absolutely, because they likely will know the people in the room that have a much broader perspective and an involvement in what’s going on. And if you don’t have a coach, then absolutely get one of those people. I’m also really fortunate that my husband is not a lawyer but he is a people leader himself, and he started coaching.

[00:19:24] Now, generally, I wouldn’t say your partner is the person that you should go for this sort of advice because of that personal investment they have in you. But sometimes my husband will say to me “Claire, have you thought about X, Y, Z?” And I think, “Eh, he’s the only person that could have said that to me.”

[00:19:39] I was really fortunate when I was at Brookfield to have a really close girlfriend who worked there as well, and she is still in my life. She often was the person who would just say to me, “You know what, Claire? This is what no one would tell you.”

[00:19:50] And I was the same to her, and that friendship has lasted three, four decades now, and will be something that I treasure and will have with me for a very long time. So if you can have someone like that who will tell you what you not necessarily want to hear, but what you need to hear, that’s gold in my book.

Managing Mindset & Wellbeing

[00:20:07] Sacha Kirk: I want to understand, for a General Counsel, how do they go about managing their own mindset and wellbeing while they’re still being the leader that their team needs to be, navigating some of these uncertain and difficult situations?

[00:20:20] in my view, they have to take personal ownership of their own career development.

[00:20:25] They have to take personal ownership of their mindset, their mental health, their physical health, and not wait for employers, or spouses, or managers, or anybody else to come along and do that for them because this goes back to the concept of leadership of self, leadership of others, leadership of the firm.

[00:20:44] You have to be able to lead yourself and look in the mirror, and I believe be proud of the person that’s looking back at you, even if they are getting a little greyer and a little bit more wrinkled and things like that. There’s a saying, and I don’t know where it originates from, nothing changes if nothing changes.

[00:20:59] And sometimes you can be the only person who is in control of changing what needs changing in your life. There’s a quote from Dr. Seuss that I have up on my desk here and it says, ” You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.”

[00:21:18] And I often remind people of the wisdom of Dr. Seuss and that quote because whatever is holding you in a place, you are the person that ultimately is making the decision to stay there. Be that in a relationship, in an argument, in a job, in a conflict, whatever it is. You can’t change the other person. You can’t generally change the organisation.

[00:21:41] You can only change yourself and the response that you have, and your thoughts and your responses. So take control and pivot and try something different because if XYZ isn’t working and you keep doing XYZ, then more fool you. Now had you asked me this question 10, 15 years ago, I never would’ve answered along those lines, but again, the wisdom of some years and some knock backs.

[00:22:03] I was watching a programme with my husband the other night, The Gentlemen, and there was a line where one of the guys said to the other guy “Everybody in life gets knocked down, but it’s how you get back up and what you then do with that beating that defines who you are.” Now, none that’s, none of that hasn’t happened to me.

[00:22:21] I haven’t been beaten up or anything like that, but I’ve learnt from the past, and you have to learn from your mistakes and do things better because, again, nothing changes if nothing changes, and you have to be the author of that. You’re either the author of your own misfortune or you’re author of your own fortune to a certain degree.

Building Influence & Networking

[00:22:37] Sacha Kirk: And for lawyers who are wanting to climb the corporate ladder, how do you coach them on being more influential or building the relationships or navigating those organisational politics?

[00:22:48] Claire Bibby: Going and doing a Masters of Law or a Doctorate of Law, that’s not, that’s…

[00:22:51] You’re already really smart. I’m actually often surprised at how many people think that they need to get more legal experience. It’s like you don’t need to get more legal experience. You need to concentrate, in my view, personally, depending on what area of law, you need to concentrate on your commercial experience, your life experience, your EQ, and learn to read the room better.

[00:23:10] Learn to network with people. And there’s a reason why network has got the word work in it, because it’s work, and it’s hard, and it’s horrid. But there are ways to do it in a way that you can squeeze as much juice as you can possibly get out of that lemon without it being a sour experience. It’s essentially get out there and meet more people, and not more lawyers. Meet more commercial people. Meet people who can have an influence in your life. There’s a great book by a Sydney lady, it’s something like The 10 People You Need to Know, and it talks about networking as going deep with a few select people rather than wide and superficial with lots of people. So all of these people who’ve got, 10, 15, 20,000 followers, that’s great if you want it for marketing purposes, but do you know all those people?

[00:23:56] I doubt it. If you want to get ahead in your career, it’s very few people that can get ahead alone. They need other people to do it, and it’s what those people are saying behind closed doors. And so that’s where I think networking comes really to its forefront, and being able to speak about more than just law.

[00:24:14] In my perspective, when I’m sitting in a boardroom and a General Counsel or a lawyer comes in and they start just talking about the law, again, no disrespect intended, but ho-hum. I know the law, or pretty much will know the law, as will most of my directors. We want to hear the strategy. We want to hear how you’ve thought outside of the box.

[00:24:33] We want to hear you deliver something to us that the next lawyer isn’t going to deliver. Because across the board, pretty much, almost all lawyers, not all, but almost all lawyers are pretty darn smart folks. To be something different, you have to offer your clients something different. And that is thinking outside of the box, being in control of the room, understanding the nuances that are happening in the room, and sometimes knowing when to shut up.

[00:24:57] Clearly something I have a problem with. But sometimes just shutting up and listening to what other people are saying and reading the vibe of the room is an incredibly powerful tool to have. But sometimes you do just need to stop talking and listen to what is going on around you, read the body language, read the impacts. You know when you walk into a room and you can feel the tension?

[00:25:20] You need to be able to respond to that maturely and appropriately, and that’s how I believe people get further in law, because they offer more than just being a lawyer. Not that there’s anything wrong with just being a lawyer, but to be more than that I think that’s the secret herbs and spices.

When to Seek a Coach

[00:25:34] Sacha Kirk: Now, I have one final question for you, Claire, before we finish up. It comes back to something that we spoke about, this idea that people will only reach out for a coach when something’s going wrong.

[00:25:44] And in my mind I’m thinking, actually it could be or should be the other way around. Just interested to hear your thoughts on this, and how do you think people should approach the idea of having a coach?

[00:25:55] Claire Bibby: I’ll answer that from two different perspectives if I may.

[00:25:57] If I answer it from the sports industry, the better you get at sports, the more coaches you get, or the more senior coaches you get. So there’s something to be learnt from that because these people aren’t getting in trouble because they’re great swimmers, runners, whatever. They’re getting a coach because they want to get that extra 1% out of themselves.

[00:26:17] So that’s the first way I’d answer it. And then the second way I’d answer it is to say that there’s a very different attitude worldwide about coaching. There does seem to be a real line along the equator. The Northern Hemisphere, they totally get it, especially Europe and especially America.

[00:26:33] They do not see it as remedial. They see it as the way of getting the secret herbs and spices and getting the very best out of people. That’s not to say that the Southern Hemisphere isn’t now getting that, because they are. And at Coaching Advocates, we’ve got just over 30 coaches, I think, in our team, and we’re forever singing this from the rooftops.

[00:26:52] There’s an increase now, in the, number of people that are in L&D seats and in HR seats in law firms who have increasing levels of influence, and quite often they come from either an organisational psychology background or from a coaching background. And so they are educating the law firms on the fact that coaching is not remedial.

[00:27:12] That’s management, by the way. If you need to tell one of your staff something because they’re not performing, that’s your job, not ours. We very rarely get hired for that. We have a couple of times been hired because it’s been a challenging conversation, but that’s really the manager’s job or the leader’s job, not the coach’s job.

[00:27:28] We’re generally there, as I said earlier, Sacha, to make the invisible visible for them, to help them see what they can’t see and get that extra 1%, 2%, 3%, get them looking at things from a different perspective. And for fear of saying it again, nothing changes if nothing changes, and sometimes bringing a coach into your life can be the change.

[00:27:47] It can be just that shove you need to help you see something from a different perspective.

Closing

[00:27:51] Sacha Kirk: Thank you. Now, that brings us to the end of this episode of In-House Matters by Lawcadia. Claire, thank you so much for sharing such a practical perspective on the challenges that come with seniority and leadership, and the opportunities that are available through having that coach.

[00:28:07] Creating space to think, challenging your assumptions, and seeking that independent perspective can be an important part of growing your leadership and helping you navigate change or deciding what comes next for you.

[00:28:20] If you’d like to continue the conversation or learn more about Coaching Advocates, please reach out to Claire Bibby via LinkedIn. If you’d like to learn more about Lawcadia, please reach out to me on LinkedIn or visit lawcadia.com

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